Storm Haven

A Custom Legit Everquest Emulator Server
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 Kayen
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How do you feel about a server reboot?
Yes, clean slate 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
No, NEVER! No! 44%  44%  [ 4 ]
Yes, if we can keep this server and have a fresh progression 56%  56%  [ 5 ]
Total votes : 9
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 10:33 pm 
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I don't know if I would be on board for this idea or if Trev/Kayen would be in favor of it. However, what do people think of the idea of Stormhaven ever having a reboot/server restart?

The server has had a super long history that I don't fully know. I can tell you that I know that there was once a IP limit of 3 toons per person and for contributors you were allowed a 4th. There use to be 30-40 man raids to kill Sol Ro in solrotower and mith marr. That is a lot of physical players!

The server has evolved quite a bit; for example double hp/mana were added to all items in the last year to help the low server population. The server is easier in terms of doing content by yourself or boxing, but this server has lost its roots, some for the better and some for not the better. Stormhaven was built to be a custom legit server where teamwork was needed to make progress it was really built to do raid content as a guild/raid.

The server has changed in so many ways that the list could go on and on. In short, the server has become something that the vet players can box and something that new players can't do. A server reboot and setting back to some more "classic" Stormhaven settings could give an opportunity for many new and old players to experience the environment that Stormhaven was developed to be originally.

(Also I propose this question with the idea that we would go back to a 3-6 char IP limit. In fact it would be the only way to do it imo)
There are certain zones and other various stuff that would have to be debated when to launch but I don't want to get to far ahead but what I mean by this is releasing content in the oder is was developed. (Like SoD level 76+ would not be at launch). Feel free to post about what you would need to see happen for you to be happy with this choice.


How do you feel? Please vote and a comment would be even more greatly appreciated.
-- Also you may change your vote -- In case someone raises a point that you didn't think of and it changes your view.


Last edited by Madara on Sun Apr 03, 2016 8:03 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 5:09 pm 
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I don't have time to make a detailed response right now.

Just wanted to say in reference to the poll, if we ever were to seriously entertain doing a wipe. There would be
no technical reason why we couldn't completely preserver the current server as is, ie there is no circumstance where we ever just delete all the server data and start over, we always have backups. If something like this was ever to occur the most realistic situation is we just launch a second server.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 8:08 pm 
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I just started less than a month ago, I really have no desire to re-level all my toons right now. I will just go where it leads...


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 8:10 pm 
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I'm curious to the vet players responses because they have years of history with this server and their toons.

I'm as equally curious to new players or many players who have come and gone for many years now. What have you found to be the struggling block or this server? I know most of you seem to just build a large botted army and try to get as far as you can and then tend to quit when ya hit the wall. Even if you pass that wall with help you will continue to face those walls and the issue if never really resolved. I try to encourage players to team up and guild up.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 9:15 pm 
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I've only been here for 3-ish months. I am finally catching up to my friend and diving into raiding. I wouldnt want to do all that work again to get to this point since it was just done, but I think it would be neat to have an ip limited Storm Haven server where people might work together; I just do not know if the server population could support it. That is my vote though, I like not having to box my own group to get through tiers and would welcome the chance to be able to see the higher raids and not have to do it all on my own.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 9:44 pm 
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I do not want to start over, but I wouldn't leave if it is restarted because I really enjoy this server very much!


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 11:32 pm 
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I used to be able to devote quite a bit of my spare time to playing here. At this point, if the server were wiped I'd never have the time to really rebuild my characters that I've leveled/geared over the years - even a small group of them. I might log in on a level 1 just to say hi to old friends, but realistically I wouldn't have time to grind through the server again. Not that my personal playtime is a reason for or against wiping, just an observation. I wonder how many other semi-active players like me would just 'retire'.

Another thing that occurred to me is that many times, players have come back to Storm Haven after long periods of inactivity, and picked up right where they left off. A server wipe would certainly allow for a fresh beginning, but it might also serve as a disincentive for former players to return.

The second server idea is interesting - it might be a nice option for those who want to experience the content in more of an original setting without forcing everyone to. Of course, there's the population issue - you'd be effectively splitting the already low population between two servers.

I admit that I do like the idea of returning to the 'roots' of Storm Haven. Many of my best memories of the server are of raiding in SolRo, Dreadspire, Nest, etc. with actual raids consisting of (relatively) large numbers of people 1-3 boxing. The main problem I see is that we no longer really have the population for that. We used to break 100+ players every single night, with active guilds competing for content - and this was when the char limit was 3/4. Perhaps a fresh start would attract some new players, but I tend to doubt it.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 2:31 am 
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Not that this was thought of before...7 years ago...

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=840

I however do not agree with many of the points I made back then in my young mindset. It was not received 7 years ago, however times have changed and maybe people will be more open to at least entertain the idea. I for one think it's worth exploring, if the population has gone so far low you have to do something, this server is too important!

I would come back and play...if I could fix my directx dll_30 issue... haha

Have a good one.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 4:14 pm 
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Very interesting reading a thread about this topic from years ago, thanks for the link Crazymon.

Also limiting it to 3 players may be the extreme for the server population and a hydrid of the changes that took place over time, might be more of a way to think of it.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 5:24 pm 
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Each way has good and bad sides. The reality of it is this game is almost 20 years old and the older it gets the less ppl will come back to play it. Ask a 13 year old kid about everquest or who woke the sleeper, they will look at you like you're crazy.

I tend to side with the don't limit and don't reset because my play times are so crazy I don't have time to make raids once a week. DKP system ? Pfft. I box because that is the only way I can play the game and advance.

If we go to an ip limit, reality is I doubt I would continue to play on the server. I just can't keep up with groups of people that have different times.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:44 pm 
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I do not want to see IP restrictions or any major changes. I, like Expletus, have limited time and play at weird broken up hours, so running me and a 5 bot group allows me to enjoy the game. My bots don't care if I am AFK for 2 hours, they just wait patiently for my return.

The server also does not appear to have enough real regular players to support some of the ideas put forth and I doubt any of them would attract enough new payers to make them work.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 10:00 pm 
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Ironically this thread has sparked the most interest I have seen in the server for a long time.

Good stuff.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:37 am 
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Personally I don't see the numbers through any EqEmu to really restart the server and expect large numbers of people to play. Go through the server listings and see that the majority of people play on servers like P99 ect. I will always love EQ, it was the first and only MMO I ever really stuck with or came back to.

Restarting the server just creates a new time sync for the players who periodically like myself come back to SH. Like Akayus I would more than likely retire unless of course they made a second server. With the times the way they are I don't see the population to get people back into playing in large numbers if limiting their boxing potential.

When SH has largeish population its mainly 5-6 people 12+ boxing and a few people 1-6 boxing. I can remembers nights this past winter when there would be 75+ people on. However, the majority was Bummy, Akayus, Madara, Tankage and myself (full boxes going that is almost about 66 toons in game).

Don't get me wrong I love this server and it will always be home for me. I just don't see the point in putting in the time it'd take to create a second server and get people going again. I don't see the numbers being there anymore.

-Luth


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 3:59 pm 
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Way to go Tankage.... You inflated the server numbers with your 18 man crew.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:09 pm 
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Haha, I do what I can do...

See I think there should be a * next to the toons that are boxing. Because out of 18, 6 are well geared, 6 are fairly well geared, and 6 are well.... ahhh... not well geared haha.

:shock:


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:14 pm 
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Excellent feedback everyone.

This is an idea that I have naturally thought about a few times over the years.

It has a certain appeal as a developer to think about how things might turn out in a fresh environment with better tuning, balance and a full range of content options from the get go (opposed to years of bit by bit additions). But, it has never moved beyond the curious "what if".

While there is technically no harm to be done in opening up a second box and seeing how it works out. It would require probably 6-12 months of real prep work to re tune and optimize everything for a fresh start. Unfortunately my time has become a more valuable commodity with a two year old, and that is not really what I'd want to spend it on right now, especially given the sentiment expressed in this post.

I think bottom line is, this is probably something I would like to do at some point in some capacity because I think it has merit. Is it something I want to start working on TODAY, probably not, but I have learned to never say never.

Anyways that is my exhausted rant, again great feedback, if anyone else wants to chime in please do.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:20 pm 
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I would be interested in seeing new content at least get restricted and with the current numbers, I would like to see that number be 6. I know that balanacing the fights for 3 people 6-12 boxxing it just not the situation Kayen wants to be in. I also Don't want to see it be a gimp fest either. At the very least I think this could be the compromise for vet players to get a chance to do something else, allow farming old content with multi toons (if they desire) and give an opportunity for players to have to get together to do content.

A server reset down the road could likely cause me to quit I must admit. I think looking at options to make the transition a bit easier for someone like Akayus, luth, other vets, and myself included; is maybe having some of the following ideas:

(twist and turn these ideas as you fit)

-Maybe not 3 bot limit but have an amount up to 6 or pending server population at the time. A vote to decide what players would like to see 3, 4, 5, 6
- Ability to retain your name on the server
- ability to level and gain aa's fast. [for those who are seasoned here] This does not to be old vet players or anything (for me this would be my biggest gripe
- I woulnt mind seeing some twinking the game play, class abilities, raid armor clickies ect. From tier to tier they don't all allign the best from tier to tier, but it is so nitpicking at this point That I leave it
- Enchanters and druids had some cool stuff added to entice people to play em. I would like to see more of that of other classes. This is lower on the end but I think it would add a fresh aspect to stormhaven

- I think many discussions would have to take place but I think there is a way to keep stormhaven and refreshed it. The server could be left as the gem it is.

I also think that using only 1 server would be the way to go but it would be nice to have a time table where if things dont work out we roll back to the old.

These are just random thoughts that I figure people might agree, disagree or perhaps like to build upon it.


ALSO IF YOUR READING THIS POST A WEEK, TWO WEEKS, or SEVERAL MONTHS LATER - PLEASE COMMENT.
I'm sure this wil be an ongoing topic and debate for a long time to come. It would be nice to see more feedback and possible ideas. We might not see a change but I think it is worth exploring and debating more.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 4:49 pm 
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I wouldn't mind the idea of a second server when Kayen has the time to put in the legwork, so lets not focus on wiping the server, lets focus maybe the idea of a second server starting from scratch with the restrictions implemented. Make it so you can only 2 or 3 box, how it was so that you can progress to a certain point and when you hit that point you will need to make friends or hope the population is high enough.

If not, you can always implement merc's for those who do not wish to box, or some variation of it. Those of us playing on the new server play under the strong notion that if its too hard to progress past Sol Ro or do any raid content due to a small population that no exceptions will be made. I mean Kayen wont increase the box amount and he wont suddenly scale content to become easier, leave it as is, and if there isn't enough players to push through into further content then we know it didn't work. If however it's got a strong population then we should consider pouring more resources into it.

I agree that it is definitely worth giving a shot, and would allow for fun new development. There's so much content before you even hit the raid content that can be retweaked and redeveloped to make it harder to even hit raid content.

There's an entire base for a server BEFORE the raiding even begins that's how much content I remember being here. I'm sure that it might not be a P1999 and it wont be what stormhaven was back in its younger years with 100+ people and multiple active raiding guilds contesting content, but it could come close, you never know.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 5:19 pm 
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There are more than enough servers running to suit the need of a box restriction. Correct me if im wrong but you are implying using the same progression path that is currently in place with a restriction and tweeks to fit that. That doesnt make sense to me. Everything evolves and changes. Change is good but if it aint broke dont fix it.

I would like to see a poll on the main emu page of interest in a server with a box limit of 2 to 3 and see if its even worth the time or effort. Different raid content, levels, spells, etc.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 6:29 pm 
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As one of the highest quantity boxers on the server I never wanted to run 18 toons at once but I also had never done it so it was great fun to mess with for sure. However, since that initial "how does this work" interest has faded a little I don't even like logging 18 people in.

We are so busy with work now I don't have the time to play much however if I was slower I would probably log 18 in more regularly just to mess around.

For a new server, and I have no idea of the details of the code, progression would be the most interesting for me.

I think a boxing limit of 3-4 would be good. Honestly I like 4 because it gives you the ability to interchange a little more. 3 is almost ridged and stuck at Tank, Heal, Dps ... with 4 it opens up options.

For progression it would seem like open up to Sol Ro, SoD T1, and like normal progression servers lock the content until the main raid target in the open zone is killed.

Again I don't know the code but since you have to be flagged above Sol Ro Tower at each kill it’s almost a locked progression anyway.

I am not sure what tweaks would have to be made to a new server but if it was an exact copy to this one, minus no character roll overs, wouldn't it act as a standalone progression now?

Reset the IP limit to X and let it roll. With no banks full of golden tickets or spells that kill a god in 1 second it seems a fresh server copy would almost run stand alone.

Now if you’re talking more balancing and new custom stuff then yes it will be lots of time. Honestly 2+ is amazing time for kids, they become sidekicks and it’s time to really enjoy them and spend time with them.

My input is just that since I would probably not be able to play much on the new server for the next few months. However, I do remember running through Sol Ro tower with 3 toons and wondering if I would make it to the end. Some of that earlier content is so freaking cool and I wouldn't mind messing with it again.

Tankage


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 3:23 pm 
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expletus wrote:
Honestly 2+ is amazing time for kids, they become sidekicks


Or they become Guildmates!


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 3:35 pm 
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expletus wrote:
There are more than enough servers running to suit the need of a box restriction. Correct me if im wrong but you are implying using the same progression path that is currently in place with a restriction and tweeks to fit that. That doesnt make sense to me. Everything evolves and changes. Change is good but if it aint broke dont fix it.


Content below Solteris has been balanced, so it will not take the numbers that it once did to do content. Also know that until 2 years ago when FC was out and all current raid content for that matter was out there was a IP limit. Due to lower server population, the IP limit was removed. Then we saw other changes like double hp/mana. I know you said don't fix it, if it aint broken, but the server has had several modifications over time.

To me the biggest thing is the raid scene. The boxxing numbers has made it hard to implement any new raid content or any content for that matter. (I know devs are hard for time) but lets pretend they found some. Before it was kinda a matter of, do I develop for raid, solo (being 1 single char) or a group that I tend to be 1 or 2 players. Now a player can box the amount of players for a raid.

I will say again, that I don't feel like 3 is my magic number. I would be happier with 6. To Tankage point, at 3 if you want to do some stuff on your own then you play a tank, healer and a dps. It doesnt give you much room for something else.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 8:19 am 
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I want to be perfectly clear in case anyone reading this got the wrong idea, everything I am writing here is just purely conversation and hypothetical. I love these types of discussions, its fun to explore new ideas, even its just that exploring.

Just doing a copy/paste/wipe and starting a second server AS IS, would likely fail.

The process would likely involve...
Copy/Paste of the server
IP limit back to 4
Set up a progression lock system. (Would consider instancing some raid content zones to accommodate more players)
Do a comprehensive item / abilities analysis, tweak things that I felt were imbalanced ect.
Optimize some gear/stats and effects better (We have much better tools/options then we did 6+ years ago)
Re-balance of NPC stats (which are quite frankly more of a mess than most people have any idea)
Review all major events ect to see where things could be improved ect.
Bunch of other misc house keeping things...

For those of you who know me, you know I don't do things half-ased IF I were to seriously do all this I would do it right to achieve the best possible out come.

Essentially this would take as much work as doing a number of other options to revitalize the server, when the time comes that I can be committed to it. Certainly there are other options that don't involve a second server as well.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 8:32 pm 
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I think Kayen's nailed it.

I am sure most of us know that you do not do things half assed, and if you were to go forward with this idea it would be done correctly. What you outlined I would agree with, 4 boxes and tweaks here and there, just this discussion is exciting. This is the most productive conversation about this topic yet, as you can see the last one mud started to fling.

I imagine Kayen doing something if this is attempted, like putting in surprises that are going to cause a lot of "WTF" moments for everyone, all while he's laughing. Changing things slightly in encounters people have memorized would make them suddenly brand new.

Oh well I'm a supporter of the concept. I also understand how hard it is with limited time.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 7:59 am 
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Instead of restarting the server, maybe what it needs is 5 new bosses, 4 elemental lords and then the "Super Kayen Boss of Destruction and Lack of Tuning". They could be placed in an arena style zone, as to hopefully limit the time spent on the zone. Their abilities would be deadly and cause much wiping. Once you beat them, you've beaten the server!

...

Ok, maybe not. For my part, I've been playing for 4 months and I know I would not be able to fully participate in raiding on any sort of frequent basis. I know for me, it's more about challenging my 6-box capability, my group make-up, and then also progressing by teaming up with Drodek and his 6-box for pushing progression. We've been pushing at a steady, moderated rate and just opened up Dranik last night. If the server were to be wiped and started over, I'd seriously consider trying out The Hidden Forest or just take a break from EQEMU altogether. I'd have very little interest in redoing the progression I've completed so far, this time with more restrictions imposed, competition for spawns, more effort required.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 2:49 pm 
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THF is a pay to win. Fyi.

Anyway, i dont think there is a right answer to this. Its not broke... maybe a happy medium? Slap a 6 box ip limit... or just leave it be.... no one wins in any situation.

Realistically a restart in the same progression line would probabably end several players runs here including mone.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 4:37 pm 
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I've never really been a fan of the idea of wiping everything and then starting over. I think one of the issues is that this server has been around along time, and LOTS of different people have played here, some for short periods of time or come and go every couple of months, some plowing to the end game and leaving days later. I feel for many people, its kind of a "been-there-done-that" attitude when it comes to whether or not they are willing to spend time here.

If there isnt anything new to experience for someone who has played here in the past, whats the point in them investing more time only to do something they've already done?

As for a second server, I think it would need to be considerably different from SH as it is now, maybe changing raid tiers and re-doing item stats/drops so that content that the majority of the people who have played here but never experienced is playable. Of all the people who have played here, how many have actually made it to FC, or solteris? I am certain its no where near the amount of people who left before ever getting there.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 6:37 pm 
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Quote:
As for a second server, I think it would need to be considerably different from SH as it is now, maybe changing raid tiers and re-doing item stats/drops so that content that the majority of the people who have played here but never experienced is playable. Of all the people who have played here, how many have actually made it to FC, or solteris? I am certain its no where near the amount of people who left before ever getting there.


I agree with this completely.

Again, we have zero plans to ever wipe the server, so those enjoying it please continue to do so.

Quote:
Instead of restarting the server, maybe what it needs is 5 new bosses, 4 elemental lords and then the "Super Kayen Boss of Destruction and Lack of Tuning". They could be placed in an arena style zone, as to hopefully limit the time spent on the zone. Their abilities would be deadly and cause much wiping. Once you beat them, you've beaten the server!


Adding content is always good. But I have learned the lesson well that adding poorly constructed / balanced content is a recipe for as much or more problems, then not adding anything at all. Not to mention, I am not searching for a way to 'end' the server. This is a living project, as long the internet is around I plan on supporting it.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 1:46 pm 
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I am confident that this discussion has ruled out any type of server reset.

If anything we've just branched into a new discussion about the possibility of starting a new server with a few tweaks using Stormhaven as a template or the backbone of it. This does not affect anyone playing on Stormhaven, but might draw in some new players that are lurking about and know that the only way to get to the endgame on Storm as it is, is to box an entire army.

I had the mindset to wipe the server, I was big on it, and now after this discussion I realize that is not the best route to go. A new server that does not affect current server is a viable option, and one I hope that is explored.

The Everquest Progression Lock servers are a big hit, maybe this would be too.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 3:03 pm 
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Thread Hijack... but eh... any chance we could look at getting this update?

http://ezserveronline.com/forums/index.php?topic=5117.0


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 5:17 am 
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I would love to, but I can tell you straight up there are a number of issues right now as a result of the code changes you linked that would flat out break a lot of stuff on SH (quest related stuff). Working on getting them fixed.

As well as a few unrelated things that would also break if we updated.

Every time we do one of these mass updates, shit hits the fan.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:58 pm 
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So... not to be the once a year lurker thread bumping hopeful discussion restarter... but I is!

Bump.

I've seen the population sitting at dismal numbers, lets heavily consider this. There is an emu population that is floating about they just don't have a home to nestle down in. I am jumping from server to server, they pop up and last a month or 2 and leave, there's no real vision and no good juicy content.

Just saying I know for a fact there is a decent amount of serious players floating around in the regular server section that this might be a thought.

Optimistic! /bump

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:26 pm 
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But everything you're looking for has that on this server...

"Real vision" we have
"Juicy Content" We have..


Whynot recruit?


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:30 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 11:58 am
Posts: 207
Decided to resurge after 5 years. I've missed this server so much heh. I can't believe it's been so long. This was hands down the most fun I'd ever had - initially. Much more fun than live. I crazy grind to max level but had difficult and dynamic raid encounters that iirc required 20-40 people? I mean props you trev and kayen - I loved those raid encounters....

I think the name in the coffin for me was it seemed to get to a point where you needed tons of plat for quest gear iirc or quests took so long or something; which defeated why initially I started... The raid content I experienced in my time was awesome. It really took strategy and was well thought out. The ability to box raid content with friends was also awesome - it still required 4+ friends but I can speak for myself and everyone I played with. WE LOVED IT.

Btw if you're oldskewl stormhaven PM me. Kayen, Trev - Hope all is well.


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